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Dance contest in honor of dasklub dance contests

We should all team up and make a dance contest that isn't by dasklub for dasklub where the members vote on winners while people pool money for a prize for the winner and the winner should use the prize money to donate to the admin to have another real dance contest that is a contest to see if their should be more contests. As in see how many people will do a dance contest with no prize but the prize being the fact people are interested enough for more dance cobtests. If this site was as popular as it was, which it could be, there wouldn't be people begging for contests. If you all have true passion it shouldn't take much to get some people together and make their own contest in honor of all prior cobtests.

Posted By: Sym Sym
4 months ago 2017-04-06  

4 months ago

I don't really know what you want to archieve...

Set out a prize (money), which has to be donated? And the prize has to be pooled by members or what? Then why not simply donate and done with it?!

When only members are to vote, we get like 10-20 votes (not many active members here). If we do voting e.g. via YouTube, people with high social media range will get unfair pushes, because there are dancers out there with more range then DasKlub (although that's kind of sad).

IMO it's a concept that can only work with a huge active community...

But we could do another community project of course, without winning and that stuff ^^


4 months ago

I feel like the asking about dance contests will never stop for this project.

I had hoped that the 2017 Das Klub Kalendar would sell enough to make me want to do a dance contest again this year but it did not sell very well. Only around 30 people bought it and I lost money making it (again). I would strongly consider having a dance contest similar to the 2011 one if 100 or more people bought a Kalendar.

I am not promising the above condition right here, right now, but this is what I would like to see. If people buy enough Kalendars to make it worth the cost of advertising it and producing it then I would have a dance contest the next year with merchandise as prizes. This is something I have thought about for a while.

An incentive like the above seems like a logical idea where everyone benefits. People get a product and express they really want a contest. Talk to cheap, it doesn't prove much of anything, spending money does. This is basically the "break even" point where this website could be online for a year without me loosing money and it is worth the effort to produce the Kalendar and the time to administer a dance contest.

I have never really spoke of this idea and I am curious about what people think. Ultimately, if people cannot show they want a contest through buying something (or donating), then they really don't care that much, in my opinion anyway.


4 months ago

"We should all team up and make a dance contest"
"But we could do another community project of course, without winning and that stuff ^^"
Noones stopping you... I'd probably join in unless it was somehow lame or wrong. Been having thoughts too.

"I would strongly consider having a dance contest similar to the 2011 one if..."
"If this site was as popular as it was"
It isn't. I think what you're missing is that site hasn't changed since 2011, but the rest of the internet has.

" if 100 or more people bought a Kalendar."
"If people buy enough Kalendars to make it worth the cost of advertising"
"...where everyone benefits. "
"People get a product and ..."
"...online for a year without me loosing money..."
"...worth the effort to produce the Kalendar..."
"...if people cannot show they want a contest through buying something ..."
"Talk to cheap, it doesn't prove much of anything, spending money does."
Why do you make bitter posts about peoples lack of motivation whenever anything collaborative comes up? I get the feeling that I'm not welcome if I don't pay for all your random projects. Maybe I should post less content and pump some more sponsor funds into calendars and whatnot?

I don't care about radio and calendars. I think you're wasting your own precious resources. And a lot of time. And I feel you're blaming the rest of us for it, even though we're actually passionate about this place.


Edited   4 months ago

Look, it's a very hard question what the best direction is for this site into the future. I want to make that clear. But when I am asked many times when I go to festivals or clubs about dance contests, when people post on here begging about them (practically), what am I supposed to do? I try to accommodate, I try to make it possible somehow but with conditions so that it can continue.

I am not discouraging anyone from making their own videos. In fact, some bands that I once worked with went off after working with me and run their own dance contests/ video projects. That's good as far as I can say, I have always wanted to empower people and I know I have. So it's a bit upsetting to read such comments you are making - nothing is stopping anyone from making videos with or without the assistance of this site.

It's been pretty obvious to me since 2012 that without a revenue stream to keep the site online, it's future is always at risk and is basically a charity project. So, I have tried. I went forth and made something that I thought helped, a calendar. Now, even that has not worked out as well as I intended but I am saying all of this because if it did, then things would be where I think they should be.

I understand from your perspective I may seem bitter or discouraging but dance contests, community dance projects, and almost every combination I can think of in between has been done already. I don't really know what you are suggesting, I have assisted people in the past. All you need to understand is, I have tried very hard to provide people with ways to meet one another around this style of music and dance in every practical way I can do with my own two hands.

What happens next, if it is bringing dance contests back from the dead, is something I am only interested in doing if the site's hosting bills (approximately $60/ month) are paid for. I think that's a small condition and as I stated I have a practical way to achieve it, selling calendars. If people ask for dance contests and yet I am again left with bills to pay, why would you assume I would be happy about it? There were already 8 dance contests and I spent 6 months editing them into an hour long video. It's not something I personally feel a need to do but again, I am willing to accommodate.

I also want to add,that I definitely do appreciate people who have contributed in donations or buying something but you have accept that this number of people is very small. How do I increase this number? I'm not sure. I do not want to beg for donations, I want to offer people something that they think is worth paying for, that is how every single project that lives works. Bands quit making music and touring, websites go offline, magazines stop getting published, etc. all because they don't make the money to make it worth their time and this site is no different. So now hopefully you understand where I am coming from.


4 months ago

It was frustration about not seeing where things were going and how. But I'm still sorry about how it came off, because I actually really appreciate what you have done, and all the opportunity it gives me and others for getting together and share a rare passion. I totally see a clearer picture after what you wrote. Please don't let it grow on you. I didn't mean for you to feel bad I was just angry. I totally want to start an awesome project here in 2 months time and that's a bit vulnerable.

This is what I suggest for you: Start asking for help. You have done so much already. There are enough people who care now, that someone must be able to help out. Donations, website assistance, ideas etc. But you must ask for that help. I'd love to partake and do more for one. I browsed the Github a while back. I don't have a .net background, but I even considered learning it because this place is awesome. But you have no incentive to keep developing new versions for this old ship, and I think some fresh ideas would benefit. Let's start talking about these things. What the possibilities are, and what's missing from taking it there.

Adding commerce into the picture opens up for some interesting possibilities for sure! And I love that drive you have. I really think renewing a few things here and there first would make that much easier, however.


Edited   4 months ago

I really don't want to ask people to help. It's something people have to just want to do. I could name a dozen or more people who have contributed significantly in terms of writing reviews, making videos and organizing meetings; ultimately these are volunteers and I respect their decisions to participate or not into the future.

To go back to the original point of this site, it was to find like minded people in a very unrepresented space that really isn't big enough for most people to put the time into it. I can assure you, I have met many people who have tried to make businesses in the space of music and dance and really the only "success" I can think of is a site that sells clothing (not interested).

I mean, of course this project is awesome, I have met lots of awesome people around the world and traveled to many countries because of it. I'm a bit lost without a financial plan in how to progress. I have big ideas, music festivals, crazy things, but nothing can happen for free. I don't think many people understand the limitations I face because I cannot fund this project.

I also have given the logo away for free and I know people make their own merchandise, so I can't even really sell merchandise. This is fine, people can use the logo but it doesn't solve the problem of how I can sell something. That is again, why the calendar was created, it is unique and it's value expires each year.


4 months ago

Ok.
So the asking for help thing is a bit too direct. But understand that I for one would absolute love volunteering and in different ways. I just simply have no idea whatsoever which tasks are involved in making this place happen. And maybe there are other people out there who feel the same.
To make a "help wanted announcement" is a bit much, but maybe a "volunteer program" could be just as good. Like have a link or subforum somewhere saying "Feel like contributing to Das Klub? Here are some ways you can help out."

Communicating to all users new as well as old ones that the website and support features are in an active state is a pretty nice message to send out, right?
Official news posts ( or threads ) every once in a while, changelog, roadmap etc. It doesn't even need a long list of change, the signal that activity is going on is just important by itself. Have you ever overheard someone complain about YT or any other big website redoing their design etc because "now I have to figure out everything all over" :) Have you also noted when 2 minutes later they will use the service per usual and have forgotten about it - maybe even start saying stuff like "woah look now I don't have to do x and y to get z I can just..." because they realize it wasn't hard and the boost of self confidence adds curiosity and spawns new behaviour? (this is just an example)
But imagine this communitys reaction on the forum if they logged in and the front page was redone! It would be a sensation!


Here are a few suggestions I can think of just by a few quick glimpses/general things (some more short term than others):

- Integration
- Add support for everything and anything that can have video like Vimeo, Dropbox, Box, Google Drive, Facebook, Amazon (half of these I don't even know if have a public API but it's worth checking out)
- Facebook, Google+ AND e-mail logins. Do stuff like Disqus comments under the videos so people passing by don't need to sign up to start adding content
- Accept that people today is on the social media and forums are old school - this means a website footer must link to all the sites everywhere else where the new members are found! Twitter, Google+, Instagram etc
- And no image, video or post must be without clearly visible share buttons for each and every one anyone member might use to share something in a place where the new members are at.
- Customization
- Maybe explore Live Streaming events or custom projects? OBS streams shouldn't really require any work once it's set up and this gives room for more creativity
- I heard mention of an app at some point. This is a splendid idea. If executed in a way that makes sense, and not just "to have one". An app could have activity feed / maybe alert subscriptions, ... it's a convenient way for some people to be reminded that this is were the party is at, and draw them back in and keep using it.
I'd personally love to just have an app to post teaser photo shots when I'm out filming so people can see I'm working on a new video....
Or it could have an archieve of songs that are cool to dance to and related. Reviews or ratings or speed and heaviness of songs or heck maybe even a song license for people who care about copyrights.
- Some people like meeting others and messaging, some keep track of news and interiews or events, listen to radio, hang out on the forum, and we are those who just loove watching others dance. Let people pick a setup that matches best their interests and help those who wouldn't do these things natuarally by hinting "Psst: you can drag this panel" or "toggle this feature"
-even better: create a uniform standard for all post and just have on single feed. #Tag or type-filter if necessary but why must there be a separate feed for videos, status, images, forum post and so forth?
- how about a unified way to applaud, reply or even add to something written or filmed? Applaud a user profile the same way you would applaud a video.
- Facelift
- Out with all the form elements. No raw inputs, uploads etc. Use something that looks cool and modern. Use JS libs if necessary.
- Add Ajax, maybe consider changing pageload into what's-the-nameof-that-thing using # instead of ? in addresses to reduce load speeds.
- Get up to date on optimizations ( https://gtmetrix.com/ ) and modern SEO
- reduce clutter, recuce the standard "1px solid #666666" border look found everywhere, and get rid of anything that distracts the eye from what you're doing. Dim some of it.
- follow any convention you can, know those you cannot follow and why, and don't break any without making it crystal clear to visirors why this is better and what to do instead. Footer layout, position of search bar and login, all logos/links/images takes people where they expect to go before trying......
- Follow the sites own conventions and never make exceptions for known pattern.
- Never impress less than possible. I mentioned the form elements, but it's also animations and unique ways of assisting learning/daily usage. Fancy feedback messages, unique problem solving, and anything that says "super sexy and cool industial dance raver" site. The sites image should match it's appearance and behaviour down into every detail ( the site shouldn't dance around, but it should always look cool and a bit hi tech if possible ).
- adaptible layout, screen size and orientation independance, mobile, tablet, pc, tv friendly
- larger avatars
- themes. Pimped profiles?
- as the site looks now I feel a disconnection between the users and the content. I want to feel like the content is made by all of us and isn't just a large shared collection.
-redone searching, submitting and commenting/sharing/liking
-less confusing menus, regroup it or maybe get rid of menus all together


Well that should suffice in pointing out there are things that could be rethought. I could go on. And I will begin formulating some more specific suggestions instead of ideas just popping.. Trello board etc...
I admire Musixmatch for it's community based approach. It's a concept of adding song lyrics, for users by users. An inspiration perhaps.

The calendar isn't a bad idea. I just raged on it because it can't stand alone. And regardless if it's t-shirts with the logo, a patreon or kickstarter, a paid membership with better features, video upload or other forms of hosting, promo/getting your dance skills seen by many people, paying for stupid crap like a different frame around the avatar or whatever and just marketing it as "I support subculture" - even something fancy like a "tribute" where you can have an account and people who think you're a good dancer will pay a small tribute from some internal account ...... whatever it is! it's going to require a larger userbase.

I guess the standard ways for music and dance doesn't bring much profit, no. But that's when you think outside the box and try out something new and exciting.. I see this more as centered around video to be honest. I know there are other types of content, but a dance is best shared online in a video - which can also show an interview or music track. Going around hosting videos and making a bizz out of it is big risk and big effort! And that's probably not a very good option. But a lot of things could be better than it is now. The donate link is hard to find. And where's the leaderboard for top donators last 3 months or so?

(I'm getting a bit eager and ahead of myself.)

That is if it's something you even want to do? Allowing this Klub go expand. I'm not sure of your wishes.


Edited   4 months ago

I had posted about people doing work before, what happens is you get one message, people then say they don't have time or interest then it's over. You can't expect much from people for free, I'm sorry.

As for all those site features, there is no way I can find the time to do that right now. I can barely justify even going to this site with all the other things in my life. I absolutely cannot take on new features like those.

Furthermore, my research into online communities proves that an old site is fine. There are many successful online communities out there with very old websites and forums, the features really don't matter that much. I have already written all the useful features. People can post to the forum, they can see the quantity of messages, they can make their own threads, see profiles, there really isn't anything else to do.

Sure, I have open sourced the code but I doubt I'll live to see a meaningful pull request in my lifetime for this project. It just doesn't happen.

I do email people about new things I've done, new interviews, reviews, meetings, etc. Sure, some people will read it but, it doesn't have a huge impact.

I really wanted to have some innovative features but it's just not worth the effort. It's impossible to compete with major multi-billion dollar websites that cater to everyone and everything in one place. It's not a battle I want to fight again.

I may revisit the source code to port it to .NET Core one day so that other instances of the site could run on Linux but that is just a personal learning project, it doesn't add value here.

I appreciate that you have lots of ideas but I can't execute on them as much as I wish I could, it's too expensive and time consuming to do much more than I have. I mean, I spent months making a global event guide last year, an amazing innovation but people just don't get it. It's so frustrating so the only code I write benefits me personally.

At this point the site exists for interviews and reviews, possibly a yearly calendar, although I'm not sure that will work out. People post images, videos, use the forum, listen to the radio, that's really all I can support in terms of monitoring and money.

I'm sorry but I am a bit pessimistic and burnt out after 6 years. The best times were 2011-2012, since then it's just been hard to keep going and every time I put effort into new features, they don't resonate or get used. People just want dance contests, which has been done to death really. I find it a bit strange people still want them sometimes, but again, it's possible if I can just find a way to keep this site afloat.


4 months ago

The experience of this site is everywhere in the scene. I am absolutely grateful for all you did so far and can totally understand your struggles with time and financies.

To keep DK alive we need to have active community projects (not only random forum stuff) like meetings, video projects and stuff like this, where people want to participate. Social Media embeddment (more on Facebook!) and an app might help to get the forum more active. Your interview work and calenders are a nice idea, and I guess over time they might get more positive. We could also think to contact magazines or something like that, lay out flyers or signature cards in clubs, etc.

But all of this are actions that motivated members should take, with their own time / money, not only you! Maybe we can reactivate and extend the "Kommunity Projects" or "Support", e.g. for designing flyers and stuff, so everyone who wants to participate is able to do so. Maybe it might help currently I have the feeing that the forum is getting mor active again. We can upload Badges for avatar pictures (.png), YouTube & Facebook banners, shirt designs, etc...

BUT this is the wrong post here, maybe we should delete this post and put his motivation elsewhere ;)


4 months ago

i totally agree with the dance contest.
but why need money?

isn't the fact about the fun of dancing? and teaming up with others(if possible?)


4 months ago

This website costs money to run. I don't understand why that is so hard for people to comprehend or why I have to constantly keep repeating this fact.

Sure, anyone can make a free dance contest on YouTube and they are welcome to but it isn't a sustainable idea.


4 months ago

I've begun working on a website myself. I was hinting that if you wanted to I'd help out, but it sounds like you're done. And that's fine. I'll post my dance videos here of course, and meanwhile we'll see if I get around to finishing this new project. Like everything I do the success (completion) rate really depends on facts impossible to predict. Like if it's fun making. Not sure if it'll be industrial only yet.

....just wanted to share and conclude.



Thread: Dance contest in honor of dasklub dance contests



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